BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Technical & specific medical articles covering many areas Kawasaki-related
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Momcat
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BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by Momcat » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:28 pm


liquidambar
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by liquidambar » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:40 pm

The mice were bred to have a compromised immune system.
Is it the environment?
Is it the genes?
For the mice it is the environment - because humans bred them to be so - the researchers are the environmental factor here.
All kidding aside though:
When it comes to people and Kaswaskis:
If it is the enviroment we can change it.
If it is the genes, we get to throw lots of money into it, and it still will change nothing.

Autism is really just brain damage in certian areas of brain, I know this because of my own personal experience and that is all I can trust anymore. Autism is also part of Kawasakis, which again I have connected the dots from my own personal experience and that is again, all I can trust. Kawasakis affects multi-organs by affecting the blood vessels leading to those organs - that includes the brain and not just the heart.

Autism is increasing. It has increased so far from 1 out of 100,000 up through the present day and is now 1 out of 100, this indicates the environment, not genetics.

Kawasakis: Has it's incidence in a population every increased or decreased?

practicing patience
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by practicing patience » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:38 am

Thank you for sharing, MC. I wonder if it is a confounder rather than on the pathway of association. No way to know for sure without more research so I hope this team continues.

liquidambar
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by liquidambar » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:54 am

Has Kawasakis disease increased or decreased?
According to Dr. Burns own research the answer is yes.
http://www.emory.edu/CHCS/Kawasaki/pdf_ ... sFINAL.pdf

Looking at her graph on Incidence of Kawasakis disease in Japan:

Incidence of Kawasaki disease in Japan increased (spiked) in two years (significantly - way up)- the years of 1983 and 1987 (by concidence - both years my daughter 83 came down with Kawasakis and 87 my son came down with Kawasakis here in the United States). The rest of the years fell back within the a lower average range- although there is an on-going slight but ever increasing rise of incidence of Kawasakis disease every year.

Yet, again in another graph by Dr. Burns on Incidence of Kawasakis disease in California - San Diego County - She looks at the Kawasakis rate In 100,000 children over five years of age and she divides further divides the children into ehtical groups of Asian, blacks, whites,and hispanics. In all ethical groups Kwasakis disease is increasing over the yeasrs. Starting - in 1994 ---5 Asian children and 10 white children out of 100,000 had Kawasakis disease but all groups have increased right on up through the year 2000, even the blacks and hispanics. In the year 2000 the incidence increased to 70 Asian children and 25 white children, but again let me repeat all ethical groups had also increased too, as a matter of fact, in a couple of years the black ethic group was higher than the other ethical groups. . Let me repeat; even in the population of black and hispanics --- incidence of Kawasakis has increased although not as much as in the white or Asian in the year 2000.

So the question should be what is going on in the Asian's and White's environment that is not going on as much as in the blacks and hispanics???

It has to be the environment. If it was genetics - it would remain a constant, Kawasakis is hardly a disease that is helpful in survival of the fittest.

Kristopher
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by Kristopher » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:35 am

Liquid ambar, i think there is more to the story when it comes to diagnosis of diseases. in the case of autism, the medical community has come to understand it much more and therefore make tons more diagnosis. I don't think that the number of people with autism has sky rocketed to the figures you laid out but the inclination of the medical community to diagnosis has skyrocketed. That's my opinion.

liquidambar
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by liquidambar » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:37 pm

Kristopher;
That has been a misconception that has been batted around alot. Better dignosis.

The interagency of autism inside the National Institue of Health says there is a sure enough increase.
The Center of Disease Control says there is a sure enough increase.
The Congress of the United States says there is a sure enough increase.

Here is a link to CDC and the increase statement:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/features/counting-autism.html

Go down to your school board and ask each year has the need for their special education services decreased or increased year in and year out since the last 20 years. Their answer is there has been an increase each and every year.

Twenty years ago a news reporter claimed in a story he did, that parents wanted thier kids in special education because, their kids would receive more individual attention, better and more education as a whole.

I heard this at time that my son had finally entered the world of speicial education and my heart was breaking.

Speaking of heart breaking. My son made me go with him to see "Secret Agent Cody Banks" because he has a crush on Hilary Duff.
Her main line to Cody Banks after he had made a fool of himself trying to impress her was "Are you in special Ed?"

In which my son sitting beside me said in a very quiet tone " Ouch".
Last edited by liquidambar on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

liquidambar
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by liquidambar » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:52 pm

1 out of 6 children according to the CDC - Center of Disease Control - in Atlantia Ga - has some type of learning disabilty.
Different states in the United States has different rates of autism.
One town in New Jersy the Brick Township, Trenton is very high.
Minnesota is high - there has been some discussion about it being one of the top states for smelting of metals.
You might be interested in looking at autism rates state by state.

http://www.stellamarie.com/index.php/20 ... -per-state

I wish we had a state by state break down on Kawasakis disease.
It would also be interesting to some way find out about atypical Kawasakis- but since it is very often not even dignosed that would be impossible.

Momcat
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by Momcat » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:51 pm

The mice were not genetically compromised to have bad or altered immune systems.

Yes, if genes are found to have something to do with KD there are alternatives that science can make towards seeing if there is something that could stop the immune system from behaving a certain way..... might be a vaccination.

There is no proof that KD has anything to do with Autism, if so, much less information (except possibly through John Travoltas beliefs and Autism sites) is out there regarding this than many other theories. Certainly there is a system wide inflammation with KD......and many of us know it can cause behavioral issues with kids, but Autism has a lot of links to other things also--including genetics.

Kawasaki Disease is still not a reportable illness as far as I know, in the United States. So figuring out what the rates are and saying it is going up is not something that equates with Autism, except in those who haven't looked outside the box. Yes there are more physicians reporting it, we live in an expanding universe of medical information..........Things are not like they were 50 years ago when many diseases didn't even have names, or behavioral issues either.

Some people use Dr Burns as a point to ridicule in some arguments and then take what they want and call it sound later.......why mock someone and then choose their articles to confuse the issue with your made up theories?

Actually blacks have a higher rate of KD than whites.

Some of you might want to know if this forum is about Autism or Kawasaki Disease. It is about KD.

liquidambar
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by liquidambar » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:35 am

First let me say that if it was not such a miserable night in this house I would be in bed and not responding to this .
But since it is a miserable night and I am mad at the whole situation as it stands at this point I want to give the slurs not accept them.

So here goes:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2431/5/14

First there is a study that was shows "Neurological and psychological complications associated with Kawasaki disease have also been noted, although reports in this area are limited. Neurological complications include aseptic meningitis occurring in 26–50% of cases as well as facial nerve palsy, sensorineural hearing loss, hemiplegia, cerebral infarction and severe lethargy, which have all been reported in various case studies [3-6]. Amano and Hazama have examined histological specimens from 30 Kawasaki disease patients and found evidence of the occurrence of endoarteritis and periarteritis within the brain [3] and it is likely that many of the CNS complications are secondary to such a process of cerebral vasculitis [8]."

Which by the way we already knew. Right?


Here is the summary:
"Summary
In conclusion, we have shown significant behavioural sequelae can occur following acute Kawasaki disease. Therefore, the paediatrician should bear in mind the potential need for long term follow up of Kawasaki disease patients in clinic even in the absence of coronary artery aneurysms. Parents can be told that behavioural difficulties experienced may be within the normal sequelae of the disease process and they can be reassured that they do not appear to affect school performance to any significant degree. However, a few probing questions should be asked to flesh out other possible causes before any difficulties are attributed to Kawasaki disease. The paediatrician should consider referral to a clinical psychologist where necessary. This may indeed prove to be a common requirement in long-term management, when it is considered that 40% of the KD group in this study fell within the clinical or borderline-clinical range for internalising problems.
Future research should examine the behavioural difficulties in greater detail, employing formal neuropsychiatric testing. Additionally, further research in this area is required to rule out other possible causes of behavioural sequelae. In particular, standard treatment with aspirin and intravenous gammaglobulin should be eliminated as potential aetiological factors."

So what is a good short name that you want to call the kids that had brain injury from Kawasakis?
Don't want that autism word, and it is more than epilespy although that is part of it too, so lets just call it internalising problems and this is only the tip of the iceburg.

This website is for only kids and thier parents who had injury to the heart only and not to the brain????

Is that what you are saying Sandy?

And by they way

Dr. Burns data is not what I disagree with; I never said it was wrong, just her conclusions.

Darn this was the easy part of my night, now I have to go and deal with more harder stuff.

Deniz Yeter
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by Deniz Yeter » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:12 pm

It is the overwhelming opinion of autism researchers that the disease is an environmentally-triggered disease with a strong genetic susceptibility. However, the largest autism gene only accounts for a total of 1.5% of cases! No single gene can explain the disease.

It is also widely accepted that the disease has been INCREASING since the late 1980s when the diagnosis went up 60-fold in the span of a decade. Yes, recognition increased but on the back of a truly increasing epidemic. They actually missed many diagnoses because of this fact, which were diagnosed years later. That's why a study must be conducted by the birth year and onset and not just the diagnosis year alone.

Also, BCG injections were found to induce Kawasaki syndrome (KS) symptoms in mice when exposed to a second environmental agent which was a ubiquitous bacterium we are all exposed to. This shows that the environmental agent(s) interact with other things such as genes, other biochemical sensitizing factors, and other environmental agents... possibly infections, drugs, or toxins...

Lastly, BCG vaccines contain THIMEROSAL! The organomercurial medical preservative containing 49.5% ethylmercury! It is still used in many pediatric vaccines at full dose (25 micrograms) such as the flu vaccine, and many other routine vaccines contain it in trace amounts (<5 micrograms) which can still cumulatively exceed the EPA safety limit for mercury exposure when all those vaccines given in a day are added up!

Momcat
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by Momcat » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:40 pm


liquidambar
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by liquidambar » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:59 am

What a great article you found Momcat.
Mercury is safe--- esp when they attach it to a carbon and hydrogen group - so the body will absorb it really, really well!
Those government agencies that have sat back and allowed it in vaccines for years and years - says so.
So end of argument!
All done then?

Besides:
That mercury in vaccines has been taken out of the vaccines for the babies------------ well almost- they said they did and then they said that they reduced it down anyway to just "trace amounts", as they increased alumiunium salts (known in the 1960's to be present in the brains of those with alzeheimers). This is what you get when vaccine manufactures cannot be sued. They don't really have to change anything much, and nothing else matters as long as they get that immune system activated.

So, vaccine theory is a lot more complicated than just having a piece of a pathogen, or a weaken pathogen to shoot into the body -- they actually use other stuff to excit that immune system.

Wonder what else is coming down the pipes for us?

Vaccine makers have also found other things to excite that immune system- like a oil called squalene. The anthrax vaccine given to Gulf War Soldiers "the Gulf War Syndrome" And in the latest war in Iraq -when it once again was going to be used; someone on a British Navy Ship threw them alll over board. They washed up on the shores of Britain, and it made it on the news. I guess given a vaccine that causes ALS is just to rough for their soul to bear.

Now they have something called recombinant DNA in vaccines, Lots to learn there, I am sure. Kuru comes to mind - as well as Mad cow disease.

Oh, flu shots still have lots of mercury in them, by the way. But that is mostly for adults, so it is okay. And if you don't want mercury in you flu shot all you have to do is just ask for those single vials ---for a single dose and see how well that goes. Mostly they will look at you like you are a three eyed space alien.

Momcat
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Re: BCG injections induce KD symptoms in mice

Post by Momcat » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:40 pm

No link to mercury and KD from any current research I have heard from the specialists.

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